(from the archives) It’s Wednesday again and that means it’s also He Said/She Said time.
It’s an age old question (sorta). Men, women, and friendship. Is it legit? I don’t know if I have known of many genuine friendships between men and women. It seems like it is much more of a novel and progressive idea than it is a practical possibility.
I’m suspicious. And I’m curious. Can men and women really be friends?
When Harry Met Sally is my favorite romantic comedy. Harry believes that men and women can never really be friends because, as he says, “the sex part always gets in the way.”
“The sex part” for Christians is, hopefully, not an issue, at least not in the same way. The sex part for Christians is more likened to attraction and maybe even some sexual tension. Which, when you are following Christ and are single, sexual pressure and desire is enough as it is without becoming friends with someone of the opposite sex whom you find hot.
I don’t think I could have ever really been friends with a hot guy while I was single. No way. That’s asking for trouble.
Looking back over my friendships, I’ve had a few male friends. At the time I really believed that they were just friends. But as I’ve gotten older and had the chance to re-evaluate those friendships, I’m not so sure.
There was the one guy who hung outside my place of work, waiting for my shift to end. There was also the friend who got angry every time my ex-boyfriend would call me. Or the dude who acted all friend-like, but who many years later told me he had a crush on me all along. I was also not attracted to any of these guys. Hmm…I think see a pattern developing.
All that aside, I do think being single and only having close friends of the same sex is great practice for marriage. Before getting married I was always intrigued by and admired guys who didn’t flirt with every girl or who had a girlfriend but didn’t have numerous female friendships on top of that. I also believe it is wise to have friends of the opposite sex that you only hang out with or see in group settings.
Now onto the issue of whether men and women can or should be friends. “Should” is different then “can”. Should they? Sure, if they can handle the heat and potential temptation. Can they? Umm… I’m still figuring that out.
Another situation people often bring up is men and women being friends with other couples. My husband and I have couple friends and I consider the men in those couples to, in fact, be my friends. However, I would never hang out with a man without my husband or call up a male friend to chit chat. My husband would also never kick it with the wife of one of his friends.
My husband and I only operate as friends with the opposite sex person within another couple when our spouse is present. Yes, it sounds a little limiting, but that’s the point. I trust my husband and I trust my friends, but I don’t want my husband and my friends going to a Friday night movie together to share some Red Vines. I want my man right next to me at the movies, holding my hand and stealing my popcorn.
I personally don’t feel like I’m missing out by not having some laundry list of guys that I call friends. I also never meet a guy and think “Man, he’s so cool, I wish we could be friends.” I’ll wish, if he’s married, I could get to know his wife. Or if he’s single, I’ll hope that he and my husband become friends. I guess part of the reason for that is because I have such a close friendship with my own husband that anyone in his life, is by default, in mine as well. And that’s the way I like it.
Harry says men and women can never be friends, that in the end, it’s impossible. I don’t agree totally with Harry but I see his point.
What about you? Do you think men and women can be friends? Why or why not? Do you have friends of the opposite sex?
I’d have to tend to agree with you. Its really not possible, at least in the deep friendship sort of way. As a single guy, there are girls that I’m really good friends with, but part of the reason for that is that they live in other states, and I’ve known them for a LONG time. I broke up with a girl last October that I’d been dating for a long time because she told me that she “just wanted to be friends that like each other for a long time while we date other people.” Are you freaking kidding me? Granted her and I have quite a history, but its really just not possible. There’s the whole ‘guarding your heart’ thing too…
In light of your last post about faith-families, the question I’m wondering about: is it possible to have faith-brothers and sisters who have no romantic or sexual intention towards each other but simply desire to care for and watch over each other as a brother watches over a sister? What if the church could be a place like that, where single ladies could go and not feel like they were being “eyeballed” and “pursued” by every single guy, but that everyone sought to be a brother or a sister first. Maybe that’s just pipe dreams, but I think it would make for a lot healthier communities… I don’t know.
I’ve never had friends that are girls. As I’ve matured a bit (but not as much as I’d like to think), I’ve realized that I’ve missed out. ‘Sisters’ help you learn how to treat women with respect and honor. ‘Sisters’ help you learn how to have a healthy friendship minus the sexual/romantic desire. Sisters help show you things about yourself that bros don’t pick up on or are too afraid to have that conversation.
I’d love to have more female friends, but I think that kind of friendship requires a level of trust and maturity that a lot of guys specifically (and girls sometimes too) just don’t have.
Thoughts?
Luke,
I too dream of a church environment where women are not ogled and men are not prizes to be won…where genuine Christ-like brother and sister relationships can take place.
I think for one thing, the church itself must place value on those kinds of relationships, not just on marriage. Not everyone will or should be married.
Secondly, the church must do what it can to practically foster those kinds of relationships.
I don’t know if it possible across the board for men and women to have healthy Godly friendships however. A lot has to do with each individual person.
Some women I know shouldn’t be friends with men because of past sexual sin and/or abuse.
We can dream though and do our best to encourage healthy brother-sister relationships where we can.
Great thought Luke. Thanks for sharing and posing some good questions.
I have a lot of friends of the opposite sex that I know will be lifelong. I’ve spent a lot of time dating in my life and when things didn’t work out I’ve chosen to keep those men as friends. There isn’t any tension or temptation since we’ve failed in that category already. These are guys who I will always care if they have four limbs and they will do the same about me. They are also fabulous for moving help, car help, computer help etc. A few of them have become close friends with my boyfriend. They always have respect for my relationships because above all they want me to be happy. I would never put any of them before the man in my life, but they make fabulous friends that I wouldn’t give up for the world. FYI I see them all the time with or without my boyfriend around. If couples have an issue with that jealousy and trust are the real problem–not the friendship.
Melissa,
You are lucky you are able to balance a relationship and male friendships. I couldn’t do it. :)
But guy friends do make great moving buddies, you’re right.
I think that, with this particular issue, the answer to your question depends entirely upon the individual. Some people can handle it and some people cannot. I think that while focusing on gender in relationship is important, it is not the only factor. I would even go so far as to say it’s not even the most important factor.
Healthy relationship of any kind, as always, has to do with maturity of the individuals involved. I know a TON of male/male and female/female relationships that are unhealthy for a multitude of reasons (Gossip, perpetuating lust, otherizing the other gender, etc.). I think that, as people (men or women), we could learn a lot if we focused on building friendships with the opposite sex. I also think that we could do with making our same-gender relationships a little more God centered.
I also find that, as I talk to most people, one gender tends to appeal to them relationally more than the other. A lot of the time, it tends to be that men can relate to men more, and the same for women, but that there are individuals who naturally enjoy relating to the opposite gender much more. Whether that is a result of brokenness in the world, or simply part of those individuals make-up, I’m not sure.
Great post.
Josh,
I agree, in that, I certainly know men and women who tend to relate better with the opposite sex.
In my experience (and this is even personal experience) it is usually for unhealthy reasons.
Some women only hang out with men because they have only been with men and do not know how to relate to women in normal, healthy ways.
I agree though that it is very much up to the individual. Although, I think once married, the game changes, or at least it should, in my opinion.
Thanks for the comment Josh!
I so, sincerely agree (and [expletive] love your writings).
My wife and I have have embraced a similar version of navigating relationships: avoid opposite sex friends & watch closely over relationships with single friends.
However, since we were married we’ve found ourselves in social circles that were dominated by younger, single people or older, married couples. The result has been very few friends locally
There have been a few moments where I (not my loving, caring, and good wife) decided to push the envelope a little by either having drinks with some single, guy friends or allowing some single girl in our circle to pursue what i felt like what a “pure, mentoring” friendship. Each instance has had the same two consequences: alienating me from my wife (even a tiny bit) and leading to some version of temptation. There is no reward great enough to risk hurting or alienating my wife.
The thing that I admire about your writing is that you’re so honest. This paragraph (from your, womanly perspective) is so, very conformational (and genius):
“I personally don’t feel like I’m missing out by not having some laundry list of guys that I call friends. I also never meet a guy and think “Man, he’s so cool, I wish we could be friends.” I’ll wish, if he’s married, I could get to know his wife. Or if he’s single, I’ll hope that he and my husband become friends. I guess part of the reason for that is because I have such a close friendship with my own husband that anyone in his life, is by default, in mine as well. And that’s the way I like it.”
Thanks for the work.
-Kevin
I so, sincerely agree (and [expletive] love your writings).
My wife and I have have embraced a similar version of navigating relationships: avoid opposite sex friends & watch closely over relationships with single friends.
However, since we were married we’ve found ourselves in social circles that were dominated by younger, single people or older, married couples. The result has been very few friends locally
There have been a few moments where I (not my loving, caring, and good wife) decided to push the envelope a little by either having drinks with some single, guy friends or allowing some single girl in our circle to pursue what i felt like what a “pure, mentoring” friendship. Each instance has had the same two consequences: alienating me from my wife (even a tiny bit) and leading to some version of temptation. There is no reward great enough to risk hurting or alienating my wife.
The thing that I admire about your writing is that you’re so honest. This paragraph (from your, womanly perspective) is so, very conformational (and genius):
“I personally don’t feel like I’m missing out by not having some laundry list of guys that I call friends. I also never meet a guy and think “Man, he’s so cool, I wish we could be friends.” I’ll wish, if he’s married, I could get to know his wife. Or if he’s single, I’ll hope that he and my husband become friends. I guess part of the reason for that is because I have such a close friendship with my own husband that anyone in his life, is by default, in mine as well. And that’s the way I like it.”
I wish you and my wife could be friends and have lunch.
Be blessed.
-Kevin
Really interesting post. Not sure I agree though! But I think I disagree in principle, not necessarily in practise (if that makes sense). Most of my good male friendships have involved a degree of sexual attraction (whether mutual or one-way) and I’m struggling to think of good male friends who I consider to be totally platonic friendships. I think I’m in the same place as Melissa, that one of my closest guy friends is an ex-boyfriend so there’s no tension, we’re just comfortable, open and honest.
The only totally platonic friendships I have with guys seem to be within the church. There are guy friends who I definitely don’t fancy, and I have it on very good authority that they don’t fancy me. I think Luke has it right, that we should be looking to serve each other as brothers and sisters. And I really do think that I have friendships like that with guys! Maybe I’m being naive and will look back in years to come… but I think there is such value and joy to be found in friendships with the opposite sex, and I think for a singleton like me it’s really important to learn a bit about how men work, to prepare me for marriage!
Hey Nicole,
Great question! You are right it is an age-old question. As an evangelical though for thirty-something years of my adult life, I’ve only heard two messages: 1) male-female romance path, and 2) the danger story for all those who don’t have an appropriate trajectory for romance. I believe the Bible and the history of male-female friendships give us a third “message” beyond these two.
I write about it in my book, Sacred Unions, Sacred Passions: Engaging the Mystery of Friendship Between Men and Women.” http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Unions-Passions-Engaging-Friendship/dp/0982580703/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1293681920&sr=1-1
You’re really speaking my language. I’ve recently thought: wouldn’t it be nice to have guy friends so that all of my gettogethers don’t end up being girly gettogethers? While looking back longingly at my college days. But then I realized that most of the guys hanging around then were interested in me or my roommates (there always seems to be attraction on one side or the other.)
So, while I’d still like to have a GROUP of guy friends, I understand that it will probably be difficult to gain them one by one.
I do not agree for one main reason. I have had several close male friendships that have been completely platonic on both sides. My husband has also had several similar female friendships. I can understand how not everyone can handle these types of friendships but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t possible as many seem to think. The main problem with male-female friendships is everyone else. At work I am very good friends with a male co-worker which has led to gossiping around the halls. My husband even has to take heat from his friends who can’t believe he would “allow” me to be friends with a male. In our relationship we are honest, open and trust each other. It causes no problems within our relationship because we view friendships the same whether they are male-female or same sex. So please don’t make assumptions when your not the one in the relationship/friendship.
Sure men and women can really be friends. Just overweight, or be black and female around white males, or Jewish and female around gentile men, and you’ll have NO SHORTAGE WHATSOEVER of men who only want to be strictly platonic friends with you.
Be a Christian Caucasian chick, though, and skinny, around any type of man whatsoever, and that might be trickier. :/
This is a First World problem I really wish I had.