Recently in my hormonal pregnant state, I began trying to convince my husband that he should just turn the other cheek about something I wanted to do and just let me do it already.
He told me “no” to which I responded, “You’re not the boss of me.”
“Actually,” he started, “I am the boss of you.”
I paused. “Yeah, you’re right. You are the boss of me.” I smiled. He smiled. Of course our exchange was just playful banter and I know too that some people reading this might be completely tuned off or repulsed by the idea of my husband being my “boss.”
Truth is, I like the whole idea and practice of submission. I have heard far too many Christian women snicker, sneer, grumble, roll their eyes, or downright reject the “s word.” But why? Why are women hung up on “submission” when God asks us to do it?
For one thing, I think many Christian men and women both, have an incorrect and/or unhealthy understanding of what it actually means to submit.
I have heard men tell their wives to “submit” and do what they are told, when they themselves are in direct disobedience to the Lord.
We know the first part of the passage: “Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.” However, people are so quick to forget or leave out the verse just a few sentences away: “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her…”
Without reading and understanding the entirety of the passage in Ephesians, some men believe the first verse allows them to lord over their wives. Some women, on the other hand, think that they somehow lose their rights as human beings.
Both are ridiculous to me and fly in the face of Biblical reason and Godly wisdom. God doesn’t treat us like slaves, (except in the spiritual sense of us being slaves to righteousness and thus slaves to Christ) so why would we assume our husbands can or should?
Secondly, the call to submission in Ephesians is not just to women, but to men, as well. Men are asked to submit to their wives in the same way Christ submitted to the Father’s Will and died on a cross. Christ submitted on our behalf and husband are told to love their wives in the same way Christ loved us.
I like the whole process of submission, like I said before, because I married a man who loves me as Christ loves the Church. My husband daily (often multiple times a day, in fact) serves me, and shows me Christ-like love.
My thinking when women show disdain or disgust at the thought of submission is, hey, if you marry the right man, submitting is no big deal. I mean it. I am not a robot or a drone. I am not a voiceless, powerless, inferior second-class citizen within my marriage.
My husband and I treat one another with respect, kindness, love, and devotion. I have not given up anything, simply gained a marriage working in accordance with God’s Word. In fact, I find submitting to my husband rather freeing. I know he hears from God and seeks God and I speak up when I suspect otherwise.
The “s-word” has a bad rap among believers. Some progressive Christians want to do away with the word in the context of marriage, I fear. Fundamentalists use it as a weapon and means of control. God, however, included the “s-word” as part of His perfect design for marriage and last I checked, He’s got a pretty sweet plan.
Why do you think some Christian women have a hard time with the “s-word”? Where do you fall on the issue? How have you learned to submit, to a spouse and/or the the Lord?
Pssst- Tomorrow be sure to come back for part 2: How and Why Women Should Submit. Eek! It’s sure to be a doozie.
post image here
Husbands loving their wives as Christ loves the church is where I start whenever I speak with people who are planning on marriage. If that is present, the other things normally follow far more easily.
I agree, Matt that husbands loving their wives as Christ loves the Church is a crucial first step.
Although, that is something that needs to be taught and encouraged in its own right. More men need to know how and what that looks like.
I’m glad you are out there spreading the Word!
Absolutely right. It’s up to the man to provide a positive impetus and in most cases harmony is established (not always I guess, we’re dealing with broken humanity).
Unfortunately, there are some members of christian churches that are starving, beaten, have no home, etc. God does not always love all gods people. If this were true, there would be no starvation.
Love this post! I am totally with you, Nicole. When you marry the right man who is seeking God and learning to love you like Christ loves the church, it is a whole lot easier to learn to submit. For me, submitting to my husband is part of submitting to God, and like you said, it is so freeing! (Not that it isn’t difficult at times, but that’s true of a lot of things worth doing.)
Amen Ashleigh! Here’s to marrying Godly men and choosing wisely from the beginning!
You are so right and so wise in saying too, that things worth doing are usually, at least a little difficult from time to time.
slavery is freeing? How?
For the first several years of my marriage I prayed for my husband to be a spiritual leader in our home…when he didn’t meet MY expectations of what that would be, I began “doing my own thing” to the point that we almost divorced after 7 years…well, now my husband IS the spiritual leader…and IT IS HARD TO SUBMIT to his leading because I didn’t realize how far my heart had gotten from the Lord. I lived my own life, my own desires, my own dreams. And then I resented all that “selfless” living. Breaking through all of that has been difficult, but my husband’s leadership has been strong and firm and for that I’ve been blessed. He’s prayed over me and loved me through my weaknesses, but didn’t waver when he needed to confront me. He doesn’t lead us in bible study or have deep spiritual conversations or schedule daily prayer hour…that’s what I thought a spiritual leader was. Rather, he leads this family with love and sacrificially carries our burdens. And every once in awhile, he’ll share what’s God’s teaching…and when he does, I’d better listen, but it’s not often that he shares that…he usually just lives it.
Sorry this derailed about my hubster…but basically, it’s hard to submit because of my selfishness!
This is an awesome reply, Melissa–such an encouraging testimony. Bless you in seeking after the Lord in submitting to your husband as he seeks to submit to Christ. You, your marriage, and your children will be blessed by this decision you’ve made.
Melissa,
Without sounding condescending, I’m proud of you! Not only do I believe God will continue to bless your marriage for your willingness to submit (even as you might be kicking, screaming and dragging your feet) but you are glorifying God.
What a testimony to your children, your family, and other married couples along the way.
Praise God for the restoration of your marriage and your husband’s growth and maturity as a spiritual leader too!
Thank you Melissa for sharing here.
You and your husband rock the kasbah! Thank you for the encouragement. :)
The other day I was praying and asking God to really show me His love for me. Honestly, it can be abstract because, well, he’s in heaven! Anyway, immediately my husband flashed into my mind. God is teaching me so much through my husband and when I don’t submit to him, I’m ultimately missing out on what God wants to show me.
What an inspirational message that I plan to note in the morning,may Yahweh continue to bless your marraige!
Because men are always so unselfish (sarcasm)
I dated someone who thought that meant she was supposed to be a doormat. The fact that I actually asked her opinion on things made her like a deer in the headlights. She was trying to be “submissive” as it turned out (which worked out great for her divorced parents) but she took it to the extreme. If God created Eve to be a suitable helper for Adam, then in my world, part of being a suitable helper is being smart, articulate, and having something to say about an issue.
Joey,
It is so sad that some women think submission means relegating yourself to a mute.
Sounds like this poor girl grew up witnessing unhealthy “submission.”
I agree that Eve was meant to be a helpmate, not a personal assistant. i don’t fetch my husband coffee. i get him a cup when I’m getting myself one because I love him and want to be kind and serve him.
Smart, articulate girls make great wives too!
I think one reason why some women may have a hard time with the idea of submission comes from what it has meant in older generations and even from other cultures. My grandparents have a much different marriage. Older generations tend to be much more traditional in the way the family operates as opposed to the egalitarian style of family operation more commonly practiced and commonly seen on TV. (e.g. Parenthood) Also, from our perspective, Muslim women are treated very poorly and are forced to submit to their husbands.
I would like to think that our culture of interpersonal relationships are evolving/adapting in a positive direction. The way a wife submits looks different today than it did 50 years ago; however, it still means the same thing.
Kenny,
I agree in that the word “submission” has negative connotations attached to it, especially from fundamentalist Christians or Islam and the like.
i agree that the culture of interpersonal relations is and has changed from the 1950’s. I think women today have lost the notion, need, and practice of submission. They instead strive for equality, which is in my opinion, a dangerous substitute. My husband is my peer and he treats me as an equal and yet, I still regard him as the spiritual leader and head of our home. It is a balance, but one that is so worth practicing.
Do you like having a master?
Although it looks different now, she is still just a slave.
Hey Nicole–I’m just getting around to reading some of these! Great blog! This topic has been on my heart lately…my longwinded response for what it’s worth…
Top reasons women don’t submit:
1. Lack of understanding
2. Today’s culture
3. Poor male leadership
4. Lack of love (for God and others)
5. Disrespect for God’s structure of authority
I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of submission being widely misunderstood by women (and many men as well). I seriously used to fall in the lack of understanding category myself. It’s a little scary to relinquish that “control”. People just don’t get why something seemingly so archaic should be obeyed today.
Submission is simply not PC in today’s culture where women are rising leaders in the workforce and seen as equals. They assume they should be able to exercise their authority in the home as well or they claim it’s “oppressive” or “old-fashioned” to submit to a husband. As we know, just because something doesn’t seem natural, doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Seeing as the Bible is timeless, authoritative and for our benefit, I think both men and women need more education or modeling on this command. And submission is freeing, not oppressive.
In the defense of a woman (and as already stated), it’s much easier to follow or submit to someone who you know is following Christ. That may be the other issue in a woman’s failure to submit. That person simply isn’t a strong leader, but that’s no excuse. We can encourage them to become the person we want to see.
I personally feel that it’s liberating that I can trust God to lead me through the authority of someone. I seriously don’t want that responsibility. Even when this person may make a mistake, I can trust God to work in that person and circumstance.
Isn’t that really what it’s all about too? Loving God and others? We first need to submit to the Lord’s structure of authority and who He puts in place to lead us (for the sake of obedience). We should then love others for their betterment in marriage and in other relationships. That betterment may be allowing Christ to sanctify them through their leadership or allowing God to sanctify me through submission. Eternal perspective for that person’s good can be the key. It’s not about me, it’s about God’s work in them and in me. And Jesus submitted, so, why shouldn’t we? But yes, sometimes it’s easier said than done, which is why we should pray to become better submitters.
I just think women don’t want to be slaves anymore. They want their freedom. With submission, you yield your free will to another, which means you are not free. Women now realize that they deserve freedom just as much as men. Slavery or submission is not freedom. If you have a human master-you are not free. Women deserve more than this, and deserve more than christianity that wishes slavery upon them.
There is another aspect of submission that most people miss entirely. I have a boss at work. There is no question about which of us is in authority over the other. We don’t have to do battle to see who prevails. He’s the boss. Period.
But in order to be a good “subordinate” employee, my boss needs me to provide him with my best ideas and my perspective on the situations we encounter so that he has as much information and insight as possible in order to make the best decisions for our team. So it is very important for me to SUBMIT my thoughts and views and desires to him so that he has the benefit of my thinking along with his as he formulates his plan of action.
God did not invent marriage just so men would have a sex partner. God made women to be suitable helpers for their husbands, so that we poor men would not just be navigating through the mine fields of life with only our own experience and thoughts to rely upon. I have the benefit of a wonderful woman at my side who tells me what she thinks and how she believes I ought to handle situations of life. When she SUBMITS her ideas, I have a much greater field of vision and a better idea of how to handle situations and people. She helps me avoid big blunders I might make if I were just acting on my own. I NEED her to SUBMIT her thoughts in order to have a better chance of acting wisely. Yes, it is then up to me to decide whether I will use her input, just as my boss considers what I say, and then makes his own decision.
God invented authority and submission so that we could work together in peace and harmony with better results in our lives. I, as a man, must submit to my boss, to church authorities, to governmental authorities, and to Jesus Christ. We all have to submit to different people in various contexts. Women, please see your great value to the team, submit your best input to your husband, and then leave him with the responsibility and the accountability to God for his decisions. Submission is not a four-letter word.
So you think of your wife as a subordinate employee?
what if your subordinate employee decided to find new employment? Maybe where there was a chance of advancement. Do sub wives get a get to heaven free card-after all, they are not responsible for their own actions. Especially if they are submissive. They literally have no choice in their own life, so why would they be responsible. Maybe your wife will come to her senses, and realize that you are not her partner, you consider yourself her master. She is your slave, and the sooner she realizes it, the better, even if you are nice to her. And even allow her to speak on occasion. I’m glad you make good decisions for your slave.
Wow. Your husband must really have it made, what with such a submissive, well-behaved wife. I’m gonna start pitching this bible stuff to my girlfriend. Can’t have her standing up for herself. If there’s one thing that frightens me, it’s independent women (shudder).
Dustin,
You are quite right. It is amazing that my husband ever lets me out of my chains in order to write this here blog. Gosh, it’s even amazing I can read and write, what with me being some kind of ignorant, small-minded, female and all..
Or did you miss this part in my post where I said: “I am not a robot or a drone. I am not a voiceless, powerless, inferior second-class citizen within my marriage.
My husband and I treat one another with respect, kindness, love, and devotion.”
If your girlfriend becomes your wife and you enter into marriage, I have no doubt this topic will have new meaning to you, whether you are a Christian or not. Perhaps we can revisit this discussion when that times comes.
I’ll hand it to your husband – he is pretty generous allowing you to go on line and proudly proclaim his divine authority over you. How ever did you wrest from him this painful concession?
Will you seriously claim equal status in a relationship in which you acknowledge your husband to be the, “boss,” of you; in which you oblige yourself, per Ephesians, to, “submit [yourself] to your husband as you do to the Lord?” Will you claim equality with, “the Lord,” whom the bible has made analogous to your husband?
You are, in fact, the equal of your husband. This is precisely the point I’m making and that you are contesting. If a woman and her spouse are equal partners in a relationship, then why are you encouraging her to submit to him? Why is his judgment deemed to trump hers?
This is archaic nonsense and I think you are spreading a terrible message to women and girls who are every bit as capable and intelligent as their male peers – a fact belied by your advice that they defer to their husbands as a proxy for, “God.”
Dustin,
I don’t claim “equal status.” I never used that term. Equality is a liberal ideal, one which is neither Biblical nor truly achievable. I have no qualms with stating that men and women are different. In their differences, they also hold different roles.
That being said, the word submit does not always necessitate a person exacting authority over another. It is also defined as “yielding or surrendering” and also the act of “committing (something) to the consideration or judgment of another.” We would be wise to acknowledge the need to have people in out lives with whom we can submit our issues, needs, and difficulties to for consideration.
Furthermore, the Ephesians verse you quoted does not make a husband equal to God. It says submit–yield–to your husband in the same way you yield to God. This verse in no way suggests that a husband is the “god” over his wife. As I also point out in my post, “Men are asked to submit to their wives in the same way Christ submitted to the Father’s Will and died on a cross. Christ submitted on our behalf and husband are told to love their wives in the same way Christ loved us.” In fact, Ephesians 5:21 says. “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. ”
The act of submission within the Christian marriage is not a one way street. Sadly, the history of men lording over women has created a fallacy in assuming that the same must be taking place in Christian marriages. No doubt I have seen men use the Ephesians passages to exert authority over their wives. This, however, is not what the Lord has in mind since Ephesians also says that husbands must submit.
The Christian marriage is to be one built upon mutual submission, to one another and the Lord. It is meant to exemplify the love that Christ displayed–a love that is sacrificial and practiced in humility. That is the message I am hoping to spread, not one of archaic masochism, but of self-sacrificing service and love for one’s spouse. No doubt marriages today need this message, not the one currently being sold by the world.
With your talk about your husband being, “the boss of you,” and how women should submit, you aren’t meaning it in a context of mutual give and take – you are suggesting an arrangement whereby the male is given the final say-so as a matter-of-course, as a divine right. Do you really think it’s a mere coincidence that the church – dominated past and present by men – has crafted a religion that bestows authority on men? Gee, go figure, right?
You can’t say that you are not a, “second-class citizen,” in your marriage while relinquishing your right to an equal share in its decision-making and insisting that you, “don’t claim ‘equal status.'” Are you claiming greater status? No, you are accepting a lesser status and pining for an age in which it was the norm.
You are not a positive role-model for women.
Dustin,
“You are not a positive role-model for women.”
You must be awfully distraught that Oprah is no longer on the air.
Now go and submit to your “girlfriend” and watch Lifetime reruns. You are not ready to be a husband.
You are not a positive role model for men. You are a boy thinking he’s a man because his girlfriend gives him sex now and again.
Run along and let the grown-ups talk.
But you did agree when your husband said he was the boss of you. That does not imply mutual submission. It is pretty clear that he thinks he is superior to you. Some slaves in the past had nice masters, but I would assume, if given the choice, they would choose freedom over having someone own them. I don’t thinl mutual submission means someone being the boss of another.
you are the most perverse and sick brains i have ever heard. Why you don’t open a whorehouse that serves every men without payment. You are the evidence what religion are made for : womenhate and sadisme. Thanks you for be so honest, you can’t be sicker than that
Greatest. Comment. Ever. And the grasp of grammar and spelling is flawlessly executed!
I love this person. I want to be them when I grow up. *sigh*
Don’t be absurd, Donald. Just because pittage is not a native speaker of English you have no right to be so contemptuous. It’s a perfectly valid point, if you can be bothered to read it sympathetically. This is indignation, not hate.
Gordon,
How can I be “Absurd” when my given name is Donald?
Sorry for offending your sensitive sensibilities, Gordon. I will now punish myself by undergoing “sensitivity training” at the local YWCA.
For all you know, Gordon, “pittage” is some naked fat guy sweating in front of a computer screen while eating copious amounts of Cheetos and fried foods.
Spare me your indignation, Gordon. You just ain’t that authoritative.
No, Donald; my point has nothing to do with authority. It is simply that you can’t read (or you are not prepared to read, or you see an inarticulate statement and assume that the writer is an idiot or a bigot). Also, the indignation isn’t mine. Wrong on two counts.
i take the bus everywhere i go to a believer or a non believer JESUS comes with a bank account so in other words they don’t want a preacher of the word that takes the bus everywhere he goes because it doesn’t reach their standards if im correct people need to here the gospel on the bus also and i never see a beautiful women pull over and preach like JESUS did repent for the kingdom of GOD is at hand all i see is the kind women that are more like the wife of servant JOB in the old testament when he lost everything why dont you just row over and cursed GOD and Die lol mybad but that is all i see
Well, I think the initial reaction is largely because we’ve fought so hard not to be treated so poorly. Women in past times did not only have to submit to their husbands but to everyone in life and it made for a stifling existence. But when it comes to your husband, one whom you love, it is different. I think the biggest difficulty is that a lot of women don’t see men love their wives as they love Christ. We see a lot of negative behavior, whether it be from our fathers, our brothers, or our boyfriends and that may not make a woman feel safe to submit to men. Because submission is trust; trust that your husband will lead you and your family in the right direction. Is it so easy to give up that control over your own life?
Ooh I love this post! I think that women have a hard time with the “S” word because of a couple things. First, I think the world has taken it out of context and twisted what it truly means. Secondly, I think it’s not really being taught in the church anymore, at least I haven’t ever heard a sermon on it. The third reason being that the second half of that- men sacrificing for their wives as Christ sacrificed for the church- is either not taught, or not respected by men who learn that. I think as a whole Christians are falling away from key points of Christianity, this being one of them. I would attribute this mostly to ignorance.
I’m praying that when I become a wife I will be able to willingly submit to my husband, and that I will have a Godly husband who understands the relationship of Husband and Wife as it is compared to Christ and the church.
Thanks for writing about this!
Wow, I would like to comment on this post :
The lord does not ask women to submit, look at the way Jesus treated women, as equals, we must not take everything in the old testament for granted. I can’t believe christians still recite these passages in the sciptures when clearly, Jesus was very liberal and did not think women should be submissive.
I am a man and I don’t see why anybody should submit to anybody in their relationship. Why would I be interested in a person who can’t stand up for herself, who obey me, who smiles if I tell her that I am the boss of her? Who buys peace, who don’t argue to not hurt my feelings? Where is the honesty in that?
Hello! I am not my wife’s dad, I am married with a person, an adult with a mind and I will of her own. Only a lowly man would want her wife to submit, this is so sad.
A woman who obeys me and let me take authority over her has no interest for me, what if I’m wrong and she is right? WHY do you think that the lord wants 50% of the population to remain in the passenger’s seat?
My wife and I love each other and have been together for seven wonderful years, I am not the boss of her because then, we would not be a couple, I would be the boss and she would be the employee. This is not love. And no, you don’t need to be strong to submit because submission is irrelevant and frankly depressing. I don’t even understand why the world submission is used. It should be replace with complicity and mutual respect.
Thanks for reading.
I liked your comments. What kind of man wants a slave-wife. A week one.
I just want to say for starters, that I agree with your interpretation of the Bible on this. That said, I also feel like your tone was condescending. I am happy that you married the right man. I really am. But as a public figure who is obviously attempting to share the love of God with the masses, you need to think about how you come across. You sound like a braggart. There are a lot of hurting women out there who didn’t make as wise a choice as you in marriage. I read this and felt defeated. I am sure I am not the only one.
Heather, I re-read my post, as I wrote it some time ago, and wanted to be able to specifically address the points you raise. Firstly, I apologize if the tone of my post comes off as haughty or as if I’m bragging. Truth be told, I am bragging a bit, in that, I did marry an amazing man. Of course, I recognize not everyone did or has. I even state this in the post, however. I also state in the post that men are called to love their wives, not lord over them. Meaning, men are just as accountable on the other end of the submission discussion.
I suppose another topic to be covered would be how do wives submit when their husbands are not loving them as Christ loves the church, which is an entirely different subject. This post was simply to define submission in the context of marriage. I have had other women ask about how a wife should respond when he husband isn’t keeping up his end of the bargain, so to speak. Perhaps that is a topic I can address in the near future.
Again, I am sorry if the tone of this post offended you in any way.
j
I wanted to share my story on the submission verses. First, I must disclose, I have left christianity because of those verses. I remember going to church one day when I was 17 years old. My parents insisted that I go, and at that time, since they supported me, they were the “boss” of me. I normally didn’t listen to the service since I was too busy worrying about what I was going to do that night, or what homework assignment was due. Unfortunatly, on the day the submission verses were read, I was paying attention, Wow, I thought, here I am almost 18-why would I ever want to give my freedom away-espeically now that I almost have it. I decided at that moment, I would never get married. Not only that, because of those verses, I started to hate and fear men, thinking all they want to do is be the “boss” of me. That hatred has never died, even after I rejected the bible. Everytime I started to like someone, I would read those verses, and run the other way. Those few words made me think of marriage as a master/slave relationship (even if the master is nice). I feel that those verses destroyed my life-and I’m taking credit, I let them get to me. All my friend and relatives (to my knowledge) have an equal marriage, so it’s not like I see master/slave marriages. I also must say that I am not a selfish person. Whil I take my needs into consideration, I also take other people’s needs into consideration. I am now a middle ager, and true to my word, I have never gotten married. Because of those few words, I think of marriage as a loss of freedom for the wife. I just can’t get over it. I probably would have made a good spouse, since I am normally considerate of others. Thanks for letting me tell my story-maybe it’s the first step in healing. PS If anyone EVER said they were the boss of me (in life), they would never be seen or heard from by me EVER. That said, I’m glad we live in a secular world where you are free to give up your freedom if you want-or to keep it. The purpose of this post is to explain how those words can be hurtful to a person. Thanks again.
Hi Jane,
I understand that these verses had a huge impact on you but I think that your way of life and wanting to have an equal relationship with people in general and if you would get married, with your husband, is absolutly in christ.
What I mean is, these verses were written a really long time ago and from another era, relationship between men and women were different and as I said before, Jesus was there to show life in a new light and he respected men and women as they were, with the fruits they could give god and one another.
If you would ever find the right person and that you guys would be inclined to get married, it would be because you love each other, you would not be “selling yourself” to some “boss”.
Why these verses are not bringing anything good to a relationship, in my opinion and my life experience, is that marriage is not “giving up” your freedom. Of course you may give up some things or change, evolve, that is a part of life, but for me, marriage is really to chose to spend my time on earth with the person I love, as she is and yes, I am a christian, but I follow Jesus and Jesus, well, let’s face it, he was the greatest rebel and showed mercy and respect were there was condemnation and injustice.
I encourage you to make peace with this sort of children/parent resistance toward these verses that shocked you. It is from a traumatizing experience, especially hearing it at a teenage age, where you do not want to be trapped by people.
It is sad that it has an impact now in your life and since Jesus considered women equals in the way he treated them and included them in his stories, I think that your view of love and relationships are the same as Jesus and that you should allow yourself to be loved, without limits.
Thanks, Jason. I guess I need to leave christianity behind. As I said, I already did, but obviously my subconscience did not. You are a very nice person, and your marriage sounds wonderful. Like a marriage is supposed to be, with noone being the boss of anybody.
Hi Jane,
It’s my pleasure to help and offer suport. In my opinion, you don’t have to leave christiannity behind as for the message of Jesus : you have you’re too feet firmly planted in it : love, self respect, mutual respect. It’s really it, you don’t have to see it as shackles, on the contrary, I was raised believing in the message of god’s love toward me and the positive message of jesus.
I am not writing this to pressure you into entering christianism, I just want to precise that really, what you left was some negative teaching from this religion, but you still live by the word of Jesus which encourages you to love and respect yourself as you are and enjoy life, as a single or with a plus one.
You can’t tell your subconscious to leave these principles behind, you live by them and it really is a good thing.
I don’t know what all the haterade is about on these comments.
I see strict atheist couples where the wife basically “submits” to the husband in a way that is outlined in the Bible… and in return the husband is very happy to meet the needs and many wants of his wife.
For example, one wife graduated with a degree that is pretty difficult to get long-term employment in. The husband has a relatively easy employment path. They lived in a part of NY where she had employment that was almost guaranteed for her for a decade or so. He wanted to move back to be closer to his family. She deferred to him, and she quit her job. Both of them are far from any type of conservative culture or Christianity. She probably knows how important she is to him by how he treats her, and she wanted to show how important he is to her by deferring to him and living near his family. (It also shows that he has awesome parents if she wants to be close to her in-laws!)
And it works. They have happy, peaceful marriages that I think some Christian marriages could learn from.
I have quite a few atheist friends that have similar stories that have kept the peace. I also have other atheist/agnostic friends that don’t have this dynamic, and many… not all… have very chaotic relational lives.
The same in atheist dating lives… the relationships where (a non-abusive) guy that takes charge (deciding when or when not to get together, final say on where to go for dates/trips, taking a stance on not moving in together, etc) and the gal isn’t some stupid, passive doormat… they are generally happy and they both hear each other loud and clear. The other (atheist/agnostic etc) relationships… tends to have a lot more strife and nobody is listening to the other person.
So it’s not just a “religious” thing. It’s something that I’ve seen atheists do more/better than the Christians (in my region of NY).
And if you ask them, the women will say that they definitely don’t feel like “slaves.” Something that people need to realize is that “submissive” is not the same “submissive” in the pornography context. Women still have choice. Women still have a say. Women still have influence. It’s just that (to balance it out) women need to choose the right husband.
And just as husbands can be imperfect and sometimes not worthy of being submitted to, women (who want to submit) can sometimes be imperfect in their “submission” to their husbands. So then there’s love and forgiveness and moving on.
And I see that in Atheist and Christian relationships.